Introduction
13:41
Mick Bishop:
Good afternoon, or good morning if you're in Western Australia. I'm Mick Bishop, AMSA Queensland Liaison Officer. Welcome to our webinar on managing operational stability risks in commercial fishing. Thank you all for taking the time to join us for this important topic today.
Before I get into the housekeeping and introduction, I'd like to acknowledge country. In the spirit of reconciliation, we here at the Australian Maritime Safety Authority would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and also acknowledge connexion to land, sea and community.
We pay our respect to elders past and present, and also extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples here on the webinar today.
I'm in Townsville, on Bindal and Wuguru Kabar country, and I also acknowledge them as my traditional custodians.
Okay, with regards to housekeeping.
Please be aware of the 30-second delay. Today's webinar is being recorded and you will receive the opportunity to get this in the mail, so you'll have a permanent record of this. If you'd like to turn on live captioning, please do so by clicking captions at the top of your Teams window. If you have any questions, please post them in the Q&A chat and AMSA experts will answer them along the way.
We will make sure we respond to all questions either during the webinar or afterwards. Also, give a thumbs up if you see a question in the chat that you want answered to. We will ask you to complete a short survey at the end of the session to help ensure future webinars meet your needs. Okay, and the webinar today...
We'll cover a range of topics including fishing vessel stability, light ship declarations, gear hookups, lifting and towing, free surface water on deck, dynamic stability and emergency preparation.
We will also have time for answering questions.
Under the new Marine Audit 504, owners and operators of vessels over 7.5 metres must now identify risks to vessel stability in the risk assessment in their SMS and keep a record of modifications affecting vessel stability.
In this webinar, we'll help you to meet the new requirements by providing practical information on fishing vessel stability risks and the controls that can manage them. By understanding these risks, owners, operators and crew can help ensure safe fishing vessel operations. To lead this presentation, I'd like to introduce Ben Corden-McKinley, Head of Technical and AMSA Vessel Safety Unit.
Also with us today is Rob Maher, Principal Naval Architect at AMSA. Rob will be answering questions in the chat. Later, Rob, Ben and I will be answering questions towards the end of this presentation. And hopefully we'll cover as many as we can. As we said, if we don't cover them today, we will get the answers to you later on, all of you. Over to you, Ben.
Fishing vessel stability overview
17:27
Ben Corden-McKinley:
Right, thanks, Mick. My name's Ben Corden McKinley. I'm the Head of Technical here in the Vessel Safety Unit at AMSA. Let's talk about fishing vessel stability.
So fishing vessel stability is complex because it's constantly changing. Unlike most other vessels, fishing boats operate through a wide range of loading conditions. They'll often leave port with full fuel tanks and no cargo, and then return home with little fuel but a full catch. That alone means their centre of gravity, their weight, and the freeboard all change dramatically over the course of a single trip.
A fishing vessel's stability is never constant. It's influenced not just by design, but on every decision the crew make during the voyage. How the vessel's loaded, how the gear is fished, how they respond to the sea. That's why understanding stability isn't simply about compliance, it's about safety. A good awareness of your vessel's weight, catch and operation.
And how the operations affect stability can make the difference between returning safely to port and a dangerous situation arising at sea.
So, before we get into the stability risks and how to assess and manage them, I thought it's worth touching on light shift declarations.
Light shift declarations
When AMSA introduced the light ship declaration system, it was designed to be a practical balance between safety and cost. And one of the most sobering Australian examples of the impact of changes to light ship and the importance of these declarations is the Returner tragedy.
The returner was a 13 metre fishing vessel that left Point Simpson in July 2015 and never returned. The skipper and both crew were lost. Before that voyage, the vessel had undergone significant modifications. Around 2.6 tonnes of ballast was removed, new tanks and equipment were fitted, the deck arrangement was altered. However, these changes weren't declared and in fact were actively withheld. No new lightship cheque or stability assessment was done post the modifications.
Post-incident modelling showed Returner was roughly 35% less stable than it had been in its original configuration. The coroner concluded that the combination of the modified stability and rough conditions created a perfect storm. This wasn't a freak accident. It showed the effect of not understanding how modifications affect stability.
It's a stark reminder that even well-intentioned changes can have catastrophic consequences if not properly assessed or declared. When you sign the AMSA 752 form, that's the one showing up on the screen, you're making a legal statement. If that statement is false or misleading, even unintentionally, it can be an offence under law. If you don't know, don't sign. The declaration system works only when everyone treats it seriously. A stable vessel is your safety margin, not just for you, but your crew and everyone who depends on you at home.
The declaration system isn't perfect, but it works, if it's used honestly and responsibly. That honesty and responsibility are what will prevent the next Returner.
Hookups
So now I'll get to the more technical part of this presentation and I'll start with hookups.
In normal trawling operations, the vessel and its gear move together. The vessel moves in the seaway, maintaining a relatively steady state of balance. But as soon as the gear hooks up on the bottom, all of that changes. The motion of the vessel and seaway will continue, but the gear is now held fast. The first thing to understand is that stability in this condition can deteriorate very quickly.
The sea conditions, the vessels heading compared to the waves, and the direction and angle of tow lines all become critical.
If the vessel can no longer move freely, waves may start to wash over the deck, possibly leading to a free surface, which I'll speak about later.
The more tension there is on the lines in the gear, the lower the vessel will sit in the water. That loss of freeboard, even by a small amount, can make the difference between staying afloat and the vessel becoming swamped.
Things become even more dangerous when the gear hook up is off to one side. A sideways light on the gear causes the vessel to heel sharply in that direction. The steeper the angle of the line, the worse the situation becomes, which is why it's so important to manage line angles when towing gear.
When I hook up a curse, it's vital to pause and think it before acting. Trying to free snag gear without assessing the stability implications can make matters worse. Every action, whether it's increasing power, changing direction, hauling on the winches, changes the load and healing forces acting upon the vessel.
The safest approach is to plan ahead for these events. Make sure the crew know the risks and the emergency steps. Consider using a quick release system or installing weak links in tow and trawl lines. These allow the snagged load to be released rapidly if the situation becomes unsafe.
Consider pre-positioning equipment such as a cordless angle grinder, bolt cutters or a knife to cut lines and gear in the event of a hookup. An old mate here in my fantastic ChatGPT image certainly seems very pleased with his big knife.
It's also important to review your vessel's design and capability. If you're unsure whether your vessel can withstand the forces from hooked up gear, seek advice from a naval architect or an accredited marine surveyor. They can help determine the safe operating limits for your vessel and you can also refer to your stability book if your vessel has one.
In short, make sure you have a plan in place and crew are trained and aware of the plan in the event of a hookup. In the event of a hookup, stop, make an assessment, and then act to free the gear. Incorporate quick release points and have the tools on hand if needed. Also review your vessel itself and ensure the forces are …you understand the forces and healing moments it can withstand.
Ultimately, a trawl net hookup isn't just a nuisance, it's a stability emergency. The combination of heavy gear, unpredictable forces and harsh sea conditions can overwhelm a vessel in seconds. By understanding the dynamics, planning for emergencies and ensuring the vessel and crew are properly equipped, operations can prevent serious incidents and ensure everyone makes it home safely.
Lifting with cranes or derricks
So on this side, we're looking at 2 common operations that can affect vessel stability, lifting with cranes or derricks and towing. Both are perfectly routine jobs in the fishing industry, but both can change your vessel stability faster than you might expect.
When you lift anything, a net, a catch bag, a pot, a drum, the moment that weight leaves the deck, the centre of gravity effectively rises to the head of the crane or davit. Even if the load is only a few 100 kilos, raising the vertical centre of gravity to several metres above the deck can have a huge impact on the vessel's overall stability.
In practical terms, the boat becomes more tender, roll angles will increase, and a sudden lift can develop if the load swings or the vessel heals unexpectedly.
Most vessels have limits on when cranes can be used. This is contained within the stability book. These limits aren't guesswork. They're carefully calculated during the initial design and any future stability analysis. So before any lifting job, operators do need to cheque and understand the lifting notes or any crane operating limitations.
Towing
So towing is another hidden stability trap. It has its own risks. If the load being towed effectively overtakes or does what's called girting the towing vessel, it can apply a very powerful healing moment. Even if you don't feel it straight away, the force can build rapidly and impose a very large healing moment very quickly.
It becomes even more serious when the towed object is sufficiently heavy.
Things like toe point location, toe line angle and others are considered in any stability assessment. A high toe point or a sideways pull can dramatically reduce your remaining riding ability.
So the key message to operators is we understand lifting and towing are everyday tasks, but both reduce your stability far more than you would realise. The stability book is there to guide you, not just for surveys, but for making real world decisions and informing you. If you're lifting, cheque the limits. If you're towing, especially heavy objects, make sure the operation is within the vessel's assessed capability.
When in doubt, stop, cheque and adjust. Most incidents happen because the vessel was asked to do more than it was ever designed to.
Free surface effect (slack tank)
Right now, I want to talk about free surface effect, which is I find particularly fascinating.
One of the more underestimated threats to vessel stability is what's known as the free surface effect. It's often referred to as having a slack tank.
So when this occurs, this will occur whenever water is able to move freely from side to side within the vessel. For example, in a partially filled tank, water on deck, or even a freezer or a fish hole where melted ice is collected.
When the vessel rolls, that water rushes to one side. As it does, the weight of the water shifts across the vessel and the centre of gravity moves with it. That's the concept that's being shown in the top image. It often helps to visualise a tray full of water and trying to carry it and how it all sloshes to one side.
The movement might not seem much, but it has a profound effect.
The more water you have moving freely, the worse the effect becomes. It doesn't just happen inside either, or in tanks. Water on deck or even loose catch on deck can have the same impact.
Alternately, unsecured hatches and doors can lead to water flooding spaces.
That would in turn generate a free surface, that's and that that healing effect is in addition to the effect of any increase in weight from shipping the water.
In developing this presentation, I searched for examples of free surface leading to the loss of fishing vessels globally, and it was quite distressing to say that there was a litany.
The free surface effect was often the nail in the coffin and generally arose as a result of overloading. And to be honest, as a naval architect, I found many of the case reports quite sobering.
One example I think illustrates it nicely is the Pacific Night, which you can see pre and post incident below in the two photos below.
The vessel was lost on the 25th of July 2018. She had been overloaded and was then sitting in anchor around 6:30 to 7:00 in the morning when she abruptly capsized and sank, resulting in the death of a crew member.
According to the captain of the fish tender Fayette, which was anchored about 100 metres forward of the Pacific night, he noticed the vessel list a port and capsized. In his statement he said the vessel rolled over so quickly he could not believe that anyone would have made it out alive.
The cause of the incident was later attributed to a combination of the overloading and the addition of large cranes, as you can see on the deck, and a significant free surface in the main fish hold. It was about 3/4 full of water at the time. In this instance, it was the free surface in the main fish hold which was the final factor that led to the capsize.
This example, along with many like it, highlight the speed of a capsize when a free surface is allowed to develop and left unchecked.
So, what to do?
Freeing ports must be large enough, open, and unobstructed, especially during fishing operations or rough weather.
They should never be closed off to keep decks dry, as that decision could make the vessel dangerously unstable. Avoid conditions where breaking waves or following seas could swamp the deck and keep all freeing ports compliant with the relevant standards and regulations.
Inside the vessel, keep bilges and bilges dry and melted ice to a minimum, especially if your stability book does not consider a free surface in your vessel's freezer or fish holes. Make sure tanks are generally kept either full or empty, and this will present a slack tank from forming.
In short, water that can move freely is never harmless. It is not only an inconvenience or making you wet and cold, proper management through design, maintenance and sound operating practises and speaking up in the event that you see water that otherwise shouldn't be there is one of the most, one of the simplest and most important defences you have against capsize.
Dynamic stability
So on this slide, we're talking about dynamic stability. So these don't come from how the boat is built or loaded, but how it actually moves in the sea. And these can catch even very experienced operators off guard because they can develop quickly and they start with an interaction between the vessel and the wave pattern. So the first thing I want to talk about is broaching, which is shown in these bottom 6 photos.
Broaching
So the image shows a broach developing. Broaching is when the vessel loses directional control while running with a C on the stern quarter or line of stern. What's really going on is as the wave picks up the stern, it can push the boat forward faster than it was travelling. This is called surge. The vessel surfs down the face of the wave, as you can see in this image. The bow can bury and the wave will start to push the vessel sideways or cause it to yaw.
If the yaw cannot be corrected, the vessel will slew around broadside to the wave, which you can see in these last couple of photos. If this happens on a steep wave face, the vessel can be knocked down and then capsized. Broaching can be reduced by changing the point of sail, avoiding large swells, or most notably when crossing a bar.
And crossing a bar is one of the more common times for a broach to occur. When crossing, try and pick your conditions. For instance, if it's possible to avoid the worst periods, such as when there's a high tidal flow or when the wind's running against the tide, broaching being largely driven by conditions, routing to best avoid these is your greatest defence.
Wave action
The next one I want to talk about is loss of stability from wave action.
So looking at the two drawings at the top slide, they show a vessel on top of the crest of a wave, and then again in a trough. The first image is a very dangerous situation. As the bow and stern are effectively out of the water at the same time, the stability drops significantly. This can directly lead to a capsize. Oddly, when the vessel's in the trough, it's actually comparatively stable compared to that condition. This situation can arise when the wavelength, so the distance between the wave crests, is about the same as the length of your vessel.
In this case, it would be prudent to change course such that you're encountering the waves at a different angle, and you don't end up with the bow and the stern emerging from the water at the same time.
Just to break up my voice, I actually found a really nice video from our colleagues in Ireland having the same conversations, but just a bit of a different accent. So I'll go ahead and play the video, and it's worth noting the vessel that sinks at the start is actually in calm water.
Irish video
Since the year 2000, over 75 fishermen have lost their lives in vessels under 15 meters, becoming lost at sea. In every coastal community in Ireland, there are widows and orphans because of these drowning fatalities. The main reason for these sinkings is a loss of stability due to irregular modifications to vessels and other factors.
This short film may save your life by making you stability aware.
Stability is common sense seamanship and knowing the risks. Stability is returning home with a good catch or not returning home at all.
Smaller vessels, if they lose their stability, can sink in under 5 minutes. Few people survive these sinkings.
Loss of stability is the major factor in sinking of vessels under 15 metres. This is not speculation or opinion, it is a fact verified by the MCIB.The first point about stability is seaworthiness. A pre-departure check is essential. Look for risks. Is the gear stow too high, raising your centre of gravity? Are your tanks half full? Check your freeing ports. Cheque your bilges. Make sure your watertight doors and hatches are secured.
Overloading causes a reduction in freeboard. Boxes stacked on deck, big catch, but with an overloaded vessel, your deck is nearer the water.
Hit bad weather, and your stability is compromised, and you sink within a couple of minutes.
Adding equipment such as net drums and power blocks adds weight up high. This raises your centre of gravity, and the higher your centre of gravity, the less stable you are.Modifications add weight, reduce freeboard.
So get expert opinion.
Free surface effect is the movement of liquids, water, fuel, even loose fish on deck. All these can affect stability.
If your tanks are half full, maybe returning to port, the fuel or fish in the tank can move from side to side in a swell. This movement can capsize a small boat. Always box and secure fish on deck and use pond boards in the hold.The sea has no moral code, no ethics. It will take your life without a thought, so be stability aware.
So I hope you enjoyed that.
Because we'll be sharing this later, we picked out some interesting videos that might be worth a watch. That last one there is the video I showed you earlier. Of interest, if anyone wants to know, understand the perspective of what happens in an inclining experiment or if someone's getting a new stability book, that first video is well worth a look.
So now I'll hand over to Mick.
Preparing for capsize
36:56
Mick Bishop:
Thanks, Ben. Clearly, the key to safety is to reduce the risk of capsize. That's what we're all about. However, you also need to prepare your vessel and your crew for a capsize emergency.
Capsizes tend to happen in bad weather when you focus on other tasks like hookups, and they can happen very quickly.
That's why every plan and control you implement beforehand can make all the difference if things go wrong.
Key part of that preparation is the planned escape route with equipment stowed and secured to keep it clear.
When a vessel turns over or floods, anything that isn't secured can become a projectile or an obstacle.
Clearance divers recovering bodies from wrecks have found that floating mattresses are the major obstacles. Securing mattresses to bunks is a simple, cheap solution to this threat.
Also check that doors, hatches and emergency exits can be opened from both sides. Sliding doors are less prone to water pressure barriers than other door types.
Escape lighting is another tool. There's many brands out there available.
Some fishing vessels even have grab bags for each crew member containing things such as emergency air bottles, torches to assist escape and subsequent survival.
Practise drills regularly so that when the time comes, you don't have to think, you just act.There won't be time to plan, the plan needs to be there already.
AMSA will soon release a video with advice from commercial fishers in Australia on their approach and tools for emergency escape. Once it is complete, we'll get it out to our industry, including everyone here today.
Not all fishing vessels need to use all of the available controls.
But there are many options to select from, and some that are easy and cheap for you to adopt.
To help you manage your stability risks, there is a brand new stability area on the AMSA website.
A great resource on there is the Guide to Fishing Vessel Stability booklet. It provides more technical information and helpful diagrams on all of the topics we've discussed today.
The website also includes a useful checklist to assist you with your risk assessment.
video with advice from an experienced trawl operator on hookups and a range of other support to help you. So have a look at that website, strongly encourage it.
Now it's time to look at your questions. We've already received some on the chat and welcome any more you would like to add.
Rob, you've been monitoring the chat and have already provided some answers. What are your thoughts on questions we should look at now?
Questions and answers
40:05
Rob Maher:
Yeah, thanks, Mick. I have been looking through the questions. We've got a couple of good ones there, but please keep them coming if you're participating in the webinar. So some of the questions we've had already were around the use of the AMSA Lightship Declaration Form, AMSA Form 752.
Why does AMSA let general managers sign the 752 form
I noted that the question was about why does AMSA let general managers sign the 752 form when they're not on board the vessels going to see themselves and they might not have as much experience as the crew. I've put an answer in there about the way that the national law is framed and the owner or the general manager having overall control and responsibility of the vessel and therefore it being the person who the regulatory framework focuses on. But I was wondering, Ben and Mick, if you had anything to add to that question.
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, really, and sort of, I sort of think it's more about treating that form with respect, is just because we let anyone sign it doesn't mean anyone should. Yeah, you want someone that understands that boat and that knows, and that can attest that what's written on there is true.
So that's probably the biggest thing I'd say is that, yeah, just because someone can sign that form, doesn't mean that they should. And I mean, that's true in many other forms and declarations around the place.
So you really want to confirm that what's on there is actually true because it's, as the Returner incident showed, if that was to be false or misleading, it can go very, very wrong. And that's probably the biggest statement I can, I'd make there.
Mick Bishop:
Yeah, I'd just add, if I can just add to that, in AMSA legislation, we define an owner very broadly. That may not be the person who financially owns the vessel. It can be someone who's got control over it. You know, the owner might be on the other side of the country and he just funds it. But essentially, what we're looking at, you know, as you both on that tracked, obviously, and it happens under a lot of our legislation, is someone who's got the responsibility needs to do it. And if they're not a technical person or they or they haven't been on the boat, as the question asked, they should damn well talk to the people who have been on the boat and get their information in before anyone signs that.
That's a good point, Mick. And I think going back to that question, if you feel like the person signing the form on board your vessel doesn't perhaps have all of the details, then I think you've got a responsibility as well to help them make informed decisions and complete that form in an informed manner.
How much detail should I include in my SMS around stability risks
42:37
We've got another question here, which is probably one for you, Mick. It is, how much detail should I include in my SMS around stability risks like hookups, lifting and managing free surfaces?
Mick Bishop:
Very good question. Technically, we don't define the amount of detail that you need in your SMS, and that's on a lot of things like that. It just says you need to do it, do your risk assessment on stability. I think it would be some sense as a horses for courses situation, where you look at various things such as trawling, for example, bottom trawling, like prawn trawling, is a classic one where you get hookups and a number of other weight-related stability threats coming in. Whereas some other fishing may have very little of those risks other than just steaming through rough water.
The key to remember with everything in your SMS, though, is the SMS is really for you. It's not something for AMSA to have a look at and say, that's a pretty SMS. So what you need to do is have a look at what are your threats, stability threats out there in your operation, and then start looking at what controls you can put in place and document those controls.
The documents we talked about on the website, that checklist I mentioned earlier is a good one to refer to. It may give you a few ideas, but I think most of you will be aware of what your stability risks are and what your controls are. And obviously you need to document it to make sure that those controls are sufficient to meet the risk. And remember, there's different sorts of controls. There's physical controls, which could be, you know, open freeing ports, hatches sealed down, those sort of physical things that go on. There's also training, drills, procedures, emergency procedures, procedures for doing certain things, hauling up gear and all the rest of it.
So there's a whole range of things in there. But really your SMS, as I say, the SMS is there to help you do your job. So if you're happy with the amount of detail you put in, then the SMS is working.
Does AMSA impose any restrictions in terms of vessel operability and in sea conditions
45:05
Rob Maher:
Thanks, Mick. There's another one here about restrictions in vessel operability in relation to sea conditions, Ben. Does AMSA impose any restrictions in terms of vessel operability and in sea conditions?
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
They're kind of baked into the service categories. So if you've been class 3 fishing bus, you'll have 3A all the way down to 3E. So in the start of the MSCV, we talk about sort of the conditions that a vessel in each particular area would be expected to deal with. So things like wave height.
It might also be built into any structural rules that your vessel's been designed to. For instance, Lloyd's impose wave height restrictions. We also build it in by how the wind pressures are presented as well. So a vessel in, say, 3C has a different, a higher wind pressure imposed in its stability assessment than one in say 3E, where we know it's going to be fairly well protected.
So yes, and it's sort of built into the system so that we know they're there. In some instances, some vessels do have them imposed on them because the naval architect or someone has said, no, this vessel is only good up till this point, and that will be written on your certificate of survey, if that's the case, and probably in a few other drawings, documents, but somewhat it can be somewhat hidden, I guess. It's not always overt.
Fishing vessel stabilisers
46:27
Rob Maher:
There's another question here asking about, can we talk to fishing vessel stabilizers, E.g. angel wings and paravanes, and what they do to the vessel stability, especially as many vessels have these retrofitted stabilizers? And I think it's an interesting question because it's a common misconception that they actually improve the vessel's stability, when really all they do is slow the rolling motion and adding them can actually decrease your vessel's stability. Yeah, particularly if they're in the upright position because you're moving some weights up higher. Yeah, so did you have any thoughts about that, Ben?
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, it's just, it's roll damping. So you think of them like the shock absorbers on your car. They’re not actually making you more stable. It might seem like that, the boat will seem more calm and will roll more easily with an easier motion, but no, they don't actually make you more stable.
And if anything, they can make you less stable if you're not careful because, say for instance, wings that you've then raised, if you haven't considered the weight of them and the raised condition when you're coming alongside, that's when it all might go terribly wrong. So it's a good question, actually, really good question.
Rob Maher:
Yeah, it is a good question. It actually makes me think, Ben, a lot of vessels are fitting newer, heavier gear high up these days, and sometimes that can make a vessel's role feel more comfortable for the crew. But it's actually making the vessels unstable in those circumstances. How do we combat the dangerous misconception that a slower roll means a safer ship.
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, I've wanted that too because it's sort of goes both ways because too low of a centre of gravity and too stiff of a ship is just as bad because everyone's getting crook and you're starting to break things. So I would suggest it's probably a bad education of crews. Going comfortable doesn't always mean safe and sort of understanding the various limitations on the boat and making sure making sure that it sort of can't put itself in that condition really.
I always use the term, I remember when I was being taught naval architecture, if the boat feels drunk, it's not good. If it's feeling very tender, so it's got a very slow roll, but it goes a long way over, that's when you know you've got a problem. So it's, I would say education probably.
Rob Maher:
Yeah, and probably, well, it's probably a good place for getting a naval architect involved to do a reassessment of VCG as well. And I know it is something that can seem like a big task to do, but it is becoming substantially easier in current times to have an assessment of stability with … It's much cheaper to get your hull scan now than it used to be when they used to come out and drop plumbobs and have to take lines manually and set things up. It's a much simpler process for getting a stability book now than it used to be and cheaper.
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, and it's a good way of showing that you're meeting your obligations under Marine Order 504 too. You may not require a stability book, but there's nothing that would stop you from going and getting one and understanding everything. And then if you can sort of try before you buy with changes, you can get a naval architect to actually assess if you can fit that bigger crane or extra whatsit without having to put it on deck and do it after the fact.
Float-free GPS-enabled EPIRBs
49:45
Rob Maher:
Yeah, there's a good comment here as well about there is a good argument why vessels should have float-free GPS enabled EPIRBs fitted.
UAIS enabled EPIRBs alert close by vessels to hopefully come and save you, worth a small investment to help get crew home alive. I think you've done some work in that space, Mick. What's your thoughts?
Mick Bishop:
Yeah, no, I think that's a great idea. And this is the key to it. I think one of the things with the AMSA legislation, so a lot of people look at it and say, AMSA legislation tells me exactly what I need to do. It doesn't. We set a minimum. And I think when people have these extras put in that we're not necessarily requiring legally. It's great. And, you know, I deal a lot with people, particularly in the fishing industry, and they have a lot of things in there that they've added themselves. And I think people talk to each other and share ideas. But yeah, that's a classic example.
And so always, always bear that in mind. What we have in our regulations is the minimum. But have a think about what it is you're doing and look for the benefit of adding more. Those things I mentioned before about escape plans and some of those things and equipment for escape, under, you know, lighting, emergency lighting and things. They're not legally required, but they're a great idea. So yeah, completely endorse what the person put up.
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
I think it was actually a personal locator beacon that was how they managed to save a couple of the crew members that fell off boats in the Sydney Hobart. They were actually saved by their own vessel and they wouldn't have been able to find them in the middle of the night otherwise. So I'd have to fact check myself on that. But I think, yeah, that's a very good point about the GPS enabled ones.
Mick Bishop:
Yeah, particularly something like that where it's man of a board situations are quite common. And yeah, so personally, perbs are great. They're a very small piece of kit, but you know, they're worth the weight in gold if you ended up in that situation.
Impact of trim on vessel stability
51:58
Rob Maher:
There's another question here about the impact of trim on vessel stability and whether or not trim should be considered or is considered in the hydrostatic assessment of a vessel then. Now, I recall that there is a requirement for trimmed hydrostatics in some circumstances, but I can't recall off the top of my head when that kicks in, do you do you recall that at all?
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
It's at the start of the NSCB they talk about longitudinal stability, so trim and it mentions about making sure that the range is safe and that would include directional stability. Four years ago I had to write a formal letter about a vessel that had too light of an outboard fitted and it was, you know, the danger of trimming by the head and then how it's travelling. But yeah, I'm trying to remember what it says in NSCB C6A. Take that one on notice.
Rob Maher:
We might have to get back to that on notice, yeah, and we'll provide an answer. There is definitely a point at which the stability book needs to include hydrostatics that are not just for the vessel in a level condition, but also for trim by the bow and trim by the stern. So we can answer that one.
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, and I mean, during the design of the boat, the designer is trying to avoid that circumstance from a rising and the loading conditions, which are sort of discrete conditions the vessel might be in or sort of pass through, do consider the trim and that's always outputted as a number and you're always trying to avoid trim by the head.
Shortage of accredited marine surveyors
53:36
Rob Maher:
Another question here, probably for you, Ben, again, about a shortage of accredited marine surveyors. And I know we have about 200 surveyors, of which around 100 are very active, but I also acknowledge that there are areas of Australia where we don't have as much coverage as other parts of the country. What do you think are some ways that owners can get better access to surveyors, particularly in regional areas?
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, I'm aware of a few surveyors that sort of, they have standard trips and even if you've got a selection of vessels, you know, all boats are going to have to get surveyed at some stage. If you can make it worth the surveyors while to actually travel down for a few days, you know, that's going to help. Like they, you'd have to speak to your surveyor, but if you can present them with, you know, five or six boats to do in one place, that's probably going to bring your costs down a bit.
I think being able to talk to people on the phone is amazing as well. And I mean, in many cases, the naval architect doesn't necessarily have to be an accrued to marine surveyor. They're private practice, so there's probably more of them around. They can send documents off to accredited marine surveyors for approval.
But yeah, we are aware, actually, and we're always considering when we're interviewing surveyors and that sort of thing where they actually are to be able to get out to places. So yeah, I mean, there's no silver bullet, but you know, there's things that you can do.
Rob Maher:
Yeah, I think you made an interesting point there about potentially, you know, cooperatives and associations working together with the owners of vessels to arrange trips so that a surveyor travel costs can be shared amongst a group of owners. I do know a couple of surveyors who do that around the country and they work with organisations to minimise costs for individuals. And if that's not happening in your area, maybe it's something you could have a chat to your local fishing association about.
Mick Bishop:
Good point. We had a recent situation in the Torres Strait, which is, as people know, is a very remote area with lots and lots of fishermen. And what happened there was the Torres Strait Regional Authority engaged a creative marine surveyor. We spent a lot of time up there, going around to all the communities, looking at all the boats. You know, the cost of flying people up and Cairns one, bit by bit to do that would be horrendous. So yeah, that was an area where they'd work together with their local association or government department in that sense, the regional authority, and they came up with a great solution.
Simplification of the system for vessel variations
56:24
Rob Maher:
There's another question here about simplification of the system for vessel variations. And what comes to mind for me for this question, Ben, is how do we work with owners and surveyors to make it clear what surveys would be required if they're making a change to their vessel?
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Yeah, often we encourage surveyors and owners to e-mail us, and well, in the first instance, for an owner to speak to a surveyor, because this is the game they play all day, every day, to be able to inform you. And then we get, yeah, they can see the boat, they know all the paperwork, they understand your usage case.
Rob Maher:
And they can see the boat too, yeah.
Ben Corden-Mckinley:
Like, yeah, they probably stepped foot on the boat, so they're more intimately aware. And then they'll often come and speak to us if it's a particularly curly one and we can provide advice. But yeah, the biggest thing I would say is go and speak to your surveyor and speak to them first, because they're going to be able to talk you through any of the little gotchas or schoolboy errors that you could accidentally make on the way through.
I hate coming into work and finding a boat where it's all sort of happening after the fact and the poor old owners left there having shelled out the money and now they've got to do something else and they've got to take something off. We hate that. I mean, we haven't paid for it, but we've got empathy for owners.
So the biggest thing I can say is go and talk to your surveyor and have a good long chat and appraise them of all the details so they can tell you. And they know how to talk to us properly and speak the same sort of stability language so we can give them the good oil. So that's probably the biggest thing I can say. Speak to the surveyor first.
Rob Maher:
Yeah, absolutely, Ben. I think as well, once your surveyors are involved in that process, they have a process that they can contact us and get a written confirmation of the surveys that they need to do so that it's all sort of locked in before you have to spend a dollar really, which is again, yeah, our preference for how these things work.
I think that's all the questions that we have time for, Mick. I'll pass it back over to you.
Mick Bishop:
Thanks. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it'd be good if we could talk longer, but we can't. But as I said before, we will include the answers to these questions along with those answered at other times and some we haven't answered yet. We'll answer those and include them as well in the package.
That's going to go up on our website and it'll be emailed to everyone who registered for this webinar. Even if you didn't come to the webinar, if you registered, you'll get the package. The package will also include a recording of the webinar, an audio brief version, which is a bit like a podcast. So you can actually listen to it while you're driving around in your car which you can't do with the whole package, obviously. And the webinar slides will be included in that. And we hope it all becomes a useful resource for you and your crews.
We'd like to thank everyone for attending today's session.
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